The Randal Osché Podcast: Season 1 | Episode 15
Join us on The Randall Osché Podcast as I talk with career coach Erica Rivera about the job market in 2024, personal branding, and career reinvention. With her experience in career coaching and recruiting, Erica offers practical advice for job seekers today.
What You'll Learn:
Building Relationships: The role of networking and community in advancing your career.
Hiring Practices: The challenges of traditional hiring and tips for standing out in a competitive market.
Leveraging Failures: Turning personal and professional setbacks into opportunities.
Adapting to Trends: Tips for continuous learning and staying adaptable.
Crafting a Personal Brand: How a well-defined personal brand can boost your career.
Don’t miss this episode for strategies to help you accelerate your career. Whether you’re looking to make a major pivot or advance in your current role, Erica’s insights will provide you with useful tools.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Youtube, Podcast Index, Podcasts Addict, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Find Erica:
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Highlights
Beyond Resumes: Candidates should build a comprehensive online presence through LinkedIn, personal websites, and social media to stand out.
Ask for Help: If you're unsure about branding, seek assistance from communities and networks in your field.
Transferable Skills: Experience in diverse fields like hospitality can provide valuable skills applicable in various careers.
Embrace Reinvention: Non-traditional career paths can lead to success. Don't feel stuck; explore new possibilities.
Streamline Hiring: Companies should simplify hiring processes, focusing on relevant skills and potential fit rather than unnecessary steps.
SHOW NOTES
Questions this conversation has Randall Pondering
"How well does my personal brand represent me and what I want to accomplish? Is it aligned with my professional aspirations?
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments!
And that's it for today's conversation here on the Randall Osché podcast. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope that you've enjoyed listening as much as we've enjoyed recording it.
Many many thanks to our guests today for sharing their knowledge, their experience and their life lessons. If you found today's conversation insightful, interesting, inspiring, please join our growing community by subscribing. Randall Osché podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and never ever miss another episode.
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The Randall Osché Podcast - Erica Rivera (Episode 15)
[00:00:00] Erica: We're very much turning to an era where it's going to be more than a resume. They're going to want to see LinkedIn profiles, or if you built a website, for example. Or if you have a brand on social media, those are going to be the things that are going to be setting people apart. And so I would say, if you're not comfortable, you don't know how that's where I think it's important to, you know, raise your hand and say, hey, can somebody help me and, find maybe communities and networks in your field.
[00:00:27] AI: Hello, and welcome to the Randall Osché podcast, where we create a safe space for meaningful and thought provoking conversations. We have long form interviews with entrepreneurs, thought leaders, artists, and change makers in order to deconstruct their journeys and to pass out valuable life lessons and life changing perspectives for listeners like yourself.
[00:00:51] AI: So that you can, as Randall says, learn their lessons without their scars. So, whether you're tuning in on your daily commute, or during a workout, or cooking dinner, we are happy to have you join us. So, take a seat, relax, grab a cup of tea, and join the conversation. Now, let's dive into this week's episode.
You made it
[00:01:32] Randall: Erica Rivera, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us today. For those that don't know you yet, won't you take a moment and introduce yourself?
[00:01:40] Erica: Yeah, well, Randall, first of all, thank you for inviting me to have this conversation with you.
[00:01:46] Erica: For those who don't know me, so, I typically go by Career Diva Coaching, which is what a lot of people know me by if you are on social media, on you know, Tik Tok or Instagram or whatever, but my name is Erica Rivera and that's what I was born and raised as.
[00:02:00] Erica: And so I am a mom, I have three dogs, three kids I am a business owner now, but prior to being a business owner as a career coach, I was working in restaurant and then worked my way into small tech and then big tech. So kind of. Long story short, in a nutshell, who I am, what I do unless you want to know about me, talk to me.
[00:02:21] Randall: I have so many questions, which is my job. One, what would you define small tech to be? And then what would you define big tech to be?
[00:02:29] Erica: Yeah, so small tech is, in my terminology with I would say anything that ,is like startup, maybe two small midsize companies that would be considered smaller tech companies and kind of the big guns, you know, they so to speak is what they say in the corporate world and would be like your Googles, your Microsoft, your Netflix of the world.
[00:02:49] Erica: And so that would be considered big tech.
[00:02:51] Randall: I did read in your bio that you did have experience in hospitality. I also have. Experience in hospitality, like from a teenager through college. What skills do you think you learned in hospitality that you may still leverage or lean on today.
[00:03:09] Erica: A lot. So hospitality, I'm so grateful that I actually had the opportunity to work in hospitality because I learned how to hustle and grind. I learned how to interact with people. People from different walks of life. So in hospitality, you are dealing with a lot of different people at different times.
[00:03:25] Erica: I learned how to prioritize. I learned how to put on, you know, my customer service space, which in the business that I do. And even when I was working in corporate had to do the same. I learned how to have empathy because a lot of times you have people coming in and you would think that and for me it was working in restaurant and hospitality.
[00:03:43] Erica: I would have people that would come in and want to have conversations with me because maybe they were, you know, lonely and it was like an older person coming in and having a meal by themselves. Or someone who maybe had a bad day and quite frankly had a shit day at work and decided they were going to come in and needed to talk to somebody.
[00:03:57] Erica: So that empathy was really big. And I learned that through hospitality and just being able to also I have thick skin too, because again, a lot of times you are finding yourself in situations where you are kind of the bearer of someone else's energy just because of something that they're going through that has nothing to do with you, so I develop really thick skin through that that I carry over now, even in what I do.
[00:04:21] Randall: Well said. I agree with everything that you said. If somebody asked me to answer that question, I would not have been able to articulate it as well as you did. So I agree with it. I mean,things that happen in hospitality. If you would do those things in a corporation, you'd be fired instantly.
[00:04:37] Randall: So I think that for various reasons, it's a great launch pad for somebody who's, trying to start a career. If you're a teenager. I was doing a podcast with Dr. Donald Asher, who is also an executive coach. And he was talking about how, you know, teenagers don't have jobs anymore.
[00:04:57] Randall: And I guess that's why like Panera Bread always has sign on the door, looking for, hiring. But, that's such a significant part of how I developed myself is those jobs early on in my career, hospitality career, and it was restaurants as well. But yeah, what I read also on your bio that career reinvention coach and advocate for non traditional job seekers.
[00:05:22] Erica: Yeah.
[00:05:23] Randall: So tell me about, both of those parts. So career reinvention coach, what does that mean to you? And then advocate for non traditional job seekers? What are both of those pieces?
[00:05:36] Erica: Yeah, so career reinvention is really what for me boils down to. We're always trying to be the best version of ourselves, and so we always get to decide and choose if we want to make changes.
[00:05:47] Erica: And so a lot of times people feel stuck and feel like they can't move forward because they are locked into whatever circumstance that they're in. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. And so I decided, you know, I'm going to label it as,I'm helping you reinvent yourself in your career and the next move that you're going to make next chapter in your life because you do have choices.
[00:06:06] Erica: So it's helping people see what is possible, because a lot of times people don't see that there are possibilities or they, again, feel stuck. So that's that 1 component. But then when it comes to the non traditional background, so a lot of people and I think this more maybe stems from my personal experience, just coming from a nontraditional background where I didn't do the whole, you know American dream where you, oh, you go to school and then you graduate, you go to college and you break into your career field, and then you get married and have, like, that was not my, my path.
[00:06:37] Erica: I was a teenage mom. I had to drop out of school and I had to work full time and then I had to put myself back in school and then worked in an office for an environmental company, but then I ended up in restaurant. And then from restaurant, I came to a crossroads and it was like, okay, well, I can't keep doing this because this is not what I want for my life.
[00:06:56] Erica: I want to be able to spend time with my kids and, you know, have holidays off and things like that. But I don't know what I want to do because I have, this mishmash of experience and just this, background that doesn't really give me a clear path on where I'm going next and how does that translate then into another field or, you know, industry.
[00:07:15] Erica: And so that's where, for me, I'm very passionate about helping people that feel that way about their own experiences where maybe. You know, they have had a similar path to mine or their own journey of, like, they worked in a certain field, but they're trying to break into another field and they don't know how, or because of the fact that maybe they didn't have access to resources to help guide them and help them understand what options were available to them.
[00:07:41] Erica: They fell into a certain category when it comes to career choices. So that non traditional background really boils down to helping people. That feel, you know, stuck and feel like that their skills won't translate into maybe the direction that they're trying to go in their career.
[00:07:56] Randall: Okay Um, what are some ways and maybe you can talk about a specific example if one comes to mind
[00:08:03] Erica: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Randall: But I work with people as well like I coach people as well but, one of the challenges that I have is sometimes when I have these conversations is that people acknowledge that they're not happy where they're at, like it's not fulfilling, X, Y, Z reasons, and they understand, comprehend, that if they did take action, that they could land up in a better spot, but there's something like a hurdle that people don't want to take on that challenge to go from where they're at, to where they want to be, right?
[00:08:37] Randall: And sometimes I think it's fear, sometimes I think it's also maybe a bit of laziness, sometimes that, it's going to require work, and I don't want to do work, so I'd rather just, bitch about me hating my current job instead of putting in the work to maybe pursue a better life, right?
[00:08:55] Randall: A better career, but how are some ways that people can, you know, unstuck themselves.
[00:09:01] Erica: That's a good question. And I work with a lot of people that feel that way. They feel very stuck in like, they don't know what to do. And I think one of the things is decision. I think we all have our threshold of like, where our capacity to deal with things bullshit is what I call it. So, you know, you will put up with as much or as little of something based on your bullshit meter.
[00:09:25] Erica: And so like the threshold is like, have you crossed that threshold? And if you have. Are you going to stay in that position and keep repeating the cycle over and over again or are you going to make a decision and a lot of it boils down to that self awareness and getting to the point where you hit that wall where you're like, I can't do this anymore and when you hit that wall, being able to look up and say, okay, I first have to decide that I'm going to do this.
[00:09:51] Erica: And then the 2nd piece is that commitment, because to your point, it's hard. It is really, really, really hard to navigate change and to take those steps and you have to start somewhere. So, I think once someone gets to the point where they realize the change is needed. And then decide that they're going to make the commitment,I really believe that aspect of reaching out and saying, I need help and finding people in your network, maybe that can support you while you're trying to make that change or to help hold you accountable. And if you don't know what it is that you need, sometimes you have to seek out those resources and have someone that can help guide you through that process.
[00:10:30] Erica: And I think that is where I encourage people, it's like, once you do to make that decision and you're like, I can't then I tell people like, you know yourself the best. So if, you know that you're not going to be able to take those steps because, you know, that you're 1, that's prone to falling back into old habits.
[00:10:48] Erica: Then that's probably means you're going to need to reach out and you're going to need help and guidance because you need somebody that can help kind of push you along until you can get to that point where you're building that momentum. And once you have that momentum, then you can take it from there.
[00:11:00] Randall: Yeah, I just recorded another podcast last night that hasn't come out yet. But in that conversation. The guest asked me a question about my past, interviews and what have I learned and in the conversations that I've had with the episodes I've recorded so far, there's some similarities between all the guests that I've interviewed.
[00:11:21] Randall: One is that they all have a high level of passion for doing what they're doing, which to be honest is probably a bias on my part for the type of people I want to talk with. Another similarity that I find is that the people that have pursued their passions that are you know, what I would call like living their best lives right now Have had help along the way. And that help has looked differently for different people, like the different guests, some people live with family members while they pursue a new career right, to reduce expenses.
[00:11:51] Randall: So they're not as reliant on that paycheck anymore. People have done that. You know, in their early twenties, people have done that in their thirties. A lot of people on the podcast I've interviewed so far have done that and that's a huge savings when you don't have to pay your own mortgage or pay your own rent And that gives you the freedom to learn develop and grow what you want to do without having to take a job to take a job because you need money.
[00:12:13] Randall: And the reason why I bring that up is I feel as though that human beings at least like our culture in the United States, that we feel like we have to do everything on our own. And I think there's a stigma about reaching out for assistance.Example, you know, we'll just focus on career and, maybe, asking a family member if you can use their spare room for, three, six months, maybe chip in a little bit for rent or cook a few meals, but making that decision, reaching out and asking for help can propel you to get you further faster.
[00:12:47] Randall: And I think that's, a decision that has to be contemplated along the way. As you had mentioned before, like it comes to making decisions. So I just wanted to throw that out there.
[00:12:57] Erica: Yeah, well, I think you make a good point. So what you're saying about the help piece, because even, you know, I think about myself for the longest time.
[00:13:04] Erica: I was taught or not even for the longest time. That's how I was raised. I was raised, you know, you put your head down, you work hard, nobody's going to look out for you. And that's how I operated. And so I think once I realized I needed to start reaching out and to connect with people and find out what people were doing and what worked for them, that's where I really started to elevate and change the way.
[00:13:27] Erica: And the, I guess I should say the trajectory of my life. So I just want to call that out, just kind of piggyback off what you're saying. And then just sorry, 1 other point, just like, not asking for help. I put out a video because I launched a free community.
[00:13:38] Erica: Cause I, to your point, I see this gap in like people not wanting to reach out or free to reach out to ask for help. And I was like, Hey, I'm starting this free community. So we can help each other, right. And support each other. In one day, I got a hundred people that signed up and I have like, probably like four or 500 people that have said they want to join because people are that desperate, right.
[00:13:59] Erica: For help and wanting to have that community. But sometimes somebody has to raise their hand and say, Hey. You know, I'm, I'm willing to help do you want to join, do you want to be part of this because people just don't. You don't feel like they can or they've been taught they can't do it. So just wanted to kind of say that as well.
[00:14:15] Randall: Absolutely. I think people feel it's burdensome. I think people have an unrealistic expectation of themselves that you should be able to be self sufficient and get from where you're at to where you want to be all on your own and I think that's a myth.
[00:14:28] Randall: I don't think that that's reality.
[00:14:30] Erica: Yeah.
[00:14:31] Randall: I grew up similar to you that, you know, put your head down like hard work. Your work ethic will get you through. But in my corporate career early on, not early on, it took me like seven years to learn this.
[00:14:42] Randall: But that's not the case in my experience. So I'm going to say this and I want to get your opinion on it, but again, Don Asher, who was on a previous episode, I've learned from one of his books, like you get jobs by talking to people and you can elaborate that to say, you get opportunities by talking to people, right?
[00:14:58] Randall: And it was at that moment. When I was like, Oh, dang, I've been doing this thing the wrong way, I always thought that I would get opportunities and make the money that I'd want to make by putting my head down working being a hard worker and being competent at whatever job or tasks that I'm responsible for doing.
[00:15:16] Randall: But there was this pivot point in my career where I realized I am competent at what I'm doing. I am a hard work, but I'm not getting the opportunities that I feel I deserve. And that's when I hired my coach and, you know, Don helped me understand like, that's not how the world works, Randall, you can be the most competent person, you can be the hardest working, but that doesn't mean that you're going to get the jobs that you deserve.
[00:15:39] Randall: There's other components to how you need to do that. And I would say what I've come to know to be true is that individuals, if you're talking about getting a job, the most effective and efficient way to get the opportunity that you want to have is by talking to people.
[00:15:58] Randall: And what I mean by that is, if person A and person B are interviewing for the same position, but person A has a better relationship with the hiring manager, person A is going to get that job, right? They could be less competent. They could be less hardworking, but they have the better relationship.
[00:16:14] Randall: So they're going to get the job. The hiring manager isn't going to say, Oh, person B, you're a little bit more hardworking, you're a little bit more competent. So I'm not going to hire the person I have the better relationship with. So what, what are your thoughts on all of that?
[00:16:27] Erica: A thousand percent.
[00:16:31] Erica: A thousand percent. I mean, I learned that the hard way myself, and this is. Literally, like, I breathe, this, I preach this, I try to talk to people about this all the time, so I'm so glad that, you know, you're bringing that up, because it is so true, and I found that out myself, when I made the transition from hospitality into corporate, and I was seeing, I was exceeding all of my goals, and doing and quite frankly, better than a lot of people on my team, just based on my metrics.
[00:16:56] Erica: And I was getting passed up for special projects that I wanted to do. And I was like, I couldn't understand. And I'm like, I'm working really, really, really hard. And to your point, the light bulb went off one day where I realized what's the common themes here. The common theme was that the people that were getting selected was they had the rapport, the relationship.
[00:17:14] Erica: I didn't, cause I just put my head down. I was like, I'm going to do my job really well. And then that for me was a game changer because I was okay, well, I need to start interacting and people need to know me. They need to see me. I need to, you know, build friendships and not even friendships, but
[00:17:27] Erica: you know, essentially be likable in the sense that, I need people to see that I'm a team player and raised my hand to help and things like that. And I then had an opportunity to launch a whole entire program for a brand new team across seas because I had put in some of that work and I was like.
[00:17:44] Erica: Oh, my gosh, this, this paid off, you know, it had paid off. But to your point prior to that, it was just like spinning my wheels and a lot of people spin their wheels and they're so frustrated because they're spinning and spinning and spinning. And they're like, I'm really working so hard. What's the disconnect here?
[00:17:58] Erica: It boils down to either you're not talking about what you're doing, because that's another piece is a lot of times people don't talk about the work that they're doing. So if they're not talking about it, your manager doesn't know your skip level doesn't know things like that.
[00:18:09] Erica: But then also, you're not connecting with people so that you can gain visibility. So then you can have access to opportunities and then somebody will think about you the next time they're meeting something and they'll be like, oh, I talked to Erica. I remember she was talking about this. Let me reach out to her and see if she can help me with this or wants to be on this project.
[00:18:26] Erica: So you're a thousand percent spot on, and I'm sorry, being animated because this is something that is so, it's so important. And I'm on a mission to try and help people understand this because it's uncomfortable to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. I think there's fear of rejection, but I think a lot of people just have never been taught the importance of this as well.
[00:18:45] Erica: So they're, you know, spinning their wheels and. Don't see that if they could just branch out and start, reaching out, start talking to people, start you know, being visible. Doors are gonna open for them.
[00:18:56] Randall: Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna jump around here a little bit, so try to stay with me.
[00:19:01] Randall: Let's do it.
[00:19:02] Randall: You, you had mentioned before you had created this community. I want people to know what that is and where they can find it. So what's the community and where can they find the community that you mentioned a few minutes ago?
[00:19:11] Erica: Really? So it's called United We Search. The reason is just we're all searching for something whether it be new job, career advancement, just support networking it's on school. So it's school. com forward slash or whichever slash. United we search. So that is where people can join.
[00:19:27] Randall: Yeah, we'll put the that in the show notes for everybody.
[00:19:30] AI: Let's take a quick break from today's episode. If you're enjoying the conversation, please take a moment to look us up. You can find Randall on Instagram at Randall Osché, that's spelled at R A N D A L L O S C H E.
[00:19:49] AI: And you can catch the show notes and other resources at randallosche.com and now back to the episode.
[00:19:55] Randall: To jump back to you get jobs by talking to people, right? And a little bit about personal branding. So I have also reasoned myself into believing this to be true. If the primary driver of why people get jobs is who has the better relationship with the hiring manager. And it could be a cousin, it could be a nephew, but it could also be like, the person has done a better job through the interviewing process to build better rapport and therefore has a better relationship with the hiring manager.
[00:20:25] Randall: I don't want to be like doom and gloom and make the listeners feel like just because you don't know somebody that's a hiring authority that you're not going to have the opportunity. You can do the work, be the person that has the better relationship, but just know that's what it's going to come down to.
[00:20:40] Randall: But with that said, we've acknowledged that the priority is the person with the better relationship gets the job, right? Meaning, two things in this instance I don't believe can be true at the same time, unless it's an exception. If the person with the better relationship gets the job, that means that the person who's the most competent doesn't necessarily get the job.
[00:21:02] Randall: So, the rule is whoever has a better relationship gets a job. The exception would be that person has the better relationship, but also is the most competent person. So my theory is there's like a trickle down effect of stupidity in organizations because they don't hire based on who is hardworking or who is competent.
[00:21:23] Randall: They hire based on relationships. And I understand that. Right? There's the world that we live in, and then there's the world that we want to live in, and the world that we live in is that people get jobs because of the relationships.
[00:21:33] Randall: Therefore, creating trickle down effect of stupidity in my you know, the way I see it, that you just continue to hire people who are less and less competent, and because they're less competent, they don't know how to hire people, they don't need to know how to do the job, as well as other people, so over time, it just erodes the success that a company could have, and it erodes the talent that a company could bring on because you're not bringing on the best talent, you're bringing on the people that, you know best and there's, I think that's a distinguishing factor. What are your thoughts on my jaded view of that scenario?
[00:22:09] Erica: Yeah, I mean, I think you bring up a really good point definitely. 1 the trickle effect of, the hiring, right? And how you're bringing typically for bringing the people that, we know, and are part of, the group or whatever, then. Yeah, it can have an impact on the organization. Absolutely. I mean, I honestly, I'm like, just.
[00:22:27] Erica: Whoa, like you're absolutely right about that. I hadn't thought about it to that, like that, capacity. And I'm just sitting here like, Whoa, you're blowing my mind here. It makes perfect sense, but it wasn't something that really I had thought about, but I agree with you. I mean, I think if that's like typically how we approach, hiring and we see this kind of trickled out effect, the impact is going to be there.
[00:22:45] Randall: Yeah, I mean, I asked the question because I want to pressure check, my own thinking and reason, but just to expand it a little bit to make sure, I don't want another person telling me I'm right. No, no, no. But, but,
[00:22:58] Erica: But if a CRO of a tech organization was hired because he knew the CEO, not because he was the best CRO for the company, he's not going to be as competent as somebody else.
[00:23:09] Randall: This doesn't mean he's going to be terrible, he or she's going to be terrible, but they're not going to be as good as somebody else who the most competent person would have been so over time, they're not going to make as much progress as they would make. And if you're talking about hiring, the CRO is then going to hire sales managers who he or she has worked with previously before, again, not the most competent.
[00:23:30] Randall: With people he or she has relationships with, and the exception would be maybe those people happen to be competent, but this is what I mean, like the trickle down effect of stupidity is that those sales managers aren't going to be the best sales managers and those sales managers are, maybe they're not going to have the ability to coach, manage, influence, or lead their sales teams as well as somebody else would have.
[00:23:51] Erica: So now you have account executives. Who need to be coached, managed, influenced, and developed, but they have sales leaders who don't know how to coach, manage, lead, or influence them to help them grow and flourish in their careers. No, absolutely. Well, and the thing is, it's true, though. The thing is, is that we do see this happen time and time again, because I even think about when I was in recruiting, and I had the lens of, seeing our hiring, right, processes and how those would go.
[00:24:17] Erica: We would, actively have to train, educate our hiring managers and leadership as, you know, recruiters, based on the data that we're seeing. And so, the hiring managers would come to me and say, hey, oh, I know this person. I have this person to run. It's like, okay, great, you know, this person, but have we looked at the resumes?
[00:24:33] Erica: Have we looked at the people that have applied, have we looked to see, does this person meet the criteria for what you say you're looking for? And so there is a big gap where we see a lot of that going kind of backdoor deal is terminology where we're bringing people in because we know them, not necessarily because they're the most qualified person for the job to your point, but they're getting the role.
[00:24:55] Erica: Because they know the person that is making the decisions and then that trickle down effect. Yes, absolutely. We'll have that impact. And so, granted there's going to be some organizations that are better about this, and it really boils down to, quite frankly, checking your teams and making sure that we are verifying, are we following the process for inclusive hiring?
[00:25:14] Erica: Are we following the process to verify that we're giving people creating an equitable process? And so that's where I would say, you know, my input is just from the lens of recruiting and also even being DEI program manager, I had that visibility and to see even just where these people are coming from as well.
[00:25:31] Erica: So there's a lot of factors at play there, but I think I agree with your point, because we do see a lot of that still where it's like, the people that are coming in are the people that are known or the people that are getting promoted. It's because they know that person and have built the rapport, but they're not necessarily maybe the person that.
[00:25:47] Erica: I'm going to say it deserves to get that promotion because they haven't earned it. It's just because they know the person in the place that can give them that promotion. So, and I'm not saying this happens all the time, but it happens enough to where it is problematic. And it is something that, does need to continuously be addressed and we need to make sure that that awareness is there.
[00:26:06] Erica: So that's where I very much, kind of agree with what you're saying. And granted,there are always going to be. It's that'll blink cons statement, you know? So, but yeah, there's a lot that does go on.
[00:26:16] Randall: Yeah. I would say, again, I agree. It's not blank. I would say it's the rule.
[00:26:20] Randall: That happens, unfortunately. The exception is that there's some exceptional companies out there that do a good job of hiring the most competent people. Right. I'm not going to name any financial institutions, but you can see thisthat CEO A goes from company A to company B.
[00:26:36] Randall: So he's now CEO B and he brings over all of his chief executives from the other company that he just left. And you can't tell me that we went through a proper. Evaluation process to make sure all of their executive buddies were the most competent people in the job market at that point in time moving forward, though.
[00:26:57] Randall: I think it's good to acknowledge like how things operate, right? And I think that helps people propel themselves to where they want to be. Again,there's the world that we live in and there's the world that we want to live in. You can spend all your time, energy and effort trying to fight the fact that that's unfair but you're not going to make much progress.
[00:27:13] Randall: So with that said, understanding like the landscape and how things work you alluded to this a little bit earlier, but you got to talk about the work you're doing so how important do you think is personal branding and what steps can professionals take to build and maintain a good personal brand, whether that's word of mouth brand in the office, whether that's a website, whether that's a portfolio, whether that's a TikTok or, Instagram accounts. How important would you say personal branding is?
[00:27:44] Randall: And then what are some steps, maybe somebody who was like you and I previously that just thought hard work and competency is going to get us to where we want to be, but they might be listening to this and be like, this is a pivotal moment for me. But how do I move forward? How do I build a personal brand?
[00:27:59] Erica: Yeah, I think that's a really, a really great question. And I think personal branding is so important and it's going to become more and more important as we see just the market changing. Because there are just so many nuances with what is going on with the job market and how we hire and then there's a lot of talent out there, so how do you set yourself apart and how do you build this brand for yourself?
[00:28:20] Erica: So, I think internally, when we think about a company, for example, I very much, think it's important that you from day 1 are walking in the door and you are documenting the work that you are doing. The reason I say that is so important because you want to make sure that you know the work that you're doing and it communicate that to your manager, for example.
[00:28:45] Erica: So, when you go into a conversation with your manager saying, okay, so what have you been working on? What's going well? How are you trending towards gold and things like that? You know exactly what to say, you don't even have to wait, like you can create some sort of spreadsheet or something and say, Hey, here, just to keep you up to date.
[00:28:59] Erica: This is what's going on and doing that and being able to have those conversations. That's going to help you start building that rapport building that brand. But then I also encourage people, even internally, a lot of times we don't want to talk to other people on other teams. So find ways to have conversations, maybe ask about having a coffee chat.
[00:29:18] Erica: So if you see maybe somebody on another team and you think the work that they're doing is really cool, ask them if they'd be willing to have a coffee chat and just get to know them because you're establishing that rapport with them. And that starts to help you with your brand because then you're known by someone on another team.
[00:29:34] Erica: And then you never know, maybe there's an opportunity on that team. And because you had that coffee chat that one day with that person. Then you get an opportunity presented to you to work on something you know, internally, I don't know. I think keep an open mind is the biggest thing.
[00:29:47] Erica: And then I also think it's important to gain visibility, even not just with your direct manager, but leadership as far as your skip levels to they need to know you and know what you're doing and at least, be acquainted with you, so I made it a point, when I went to go work at Google, I made sure my manager knew everything I was doing, but I was also scheduling quarterly meetings with my skip level.
[00:30:09] Erica: And then when an opportunity presented itself for me to make a move internally. I was able to make that move because they knew about me. They knew the work that I was doing, but it's because I made it an effort to make those relationships. So I think that that's branding. Like I built my professional brand internally.
[00:30:25] Erica: And so that's where I see the most success for people. And I learned that through just watching other people and what they were doing. I learned that through reaching out to people that I personally admired and thought were doing phenomenal in their roles and having conversations to know that, like, this branding piece is really big.
[00:30:44] Erica: So I'd say internally, that would be some of that. I think maybe recommendations I would have there. Sometimes people aren't comfortable and I know that or they feel like it's a burden and that mentality of I'm a burden. And this is, you know, something I can't do. You can. You can. You just have to start to reframe that narrative.
[00:31:00] Erica: And I think we have to break out of this mindset, this old way of thinking, and we have to be the ones that take ownership and be the proactive member participant of our lives. And nobody's going to typically propel us forward. We have to be the ones to initiate that. So that for me, I think internally is a big one.
[00:31:18] Erica: And then outside of work, just on a personal level. Also, it's important, I think, to build a brand too, because then you don't know who's watching. You never know who's in the background that is seeing what you're doing or the things that you're talking about. So for me, that channel was social media. I had an area that I was passionate about, which I knew really a lot about, which was recruiting.
[00:31:44] Erica: And I wanted to help bridge the gap. And so for me, I decided my personal brand online was going to be helping bridge the gap and help people see behind the scenes to help them land job opportunities. So we all have something that we can bring to the table. And I think sometimes people feel like they don't have maybe something of value that they can bring.
[00:32:04] Erica: And so they're hesitant to put themselves in the spotlight, so to speak. But I would just encourage people, especially because of the way the job market is changing. We're very much turning to an era where it's going to be more than a resume. They're going to want to see LinkedIn profiles, or if you built a website, for example, like you're saying.
[00:32:23] Erica: Or if you have a brand on social media, those are going to be the things that are going to be setting people apart. And so I would say, if you're not comfortable, you don't know how that's where I think it's important to, you know, raise your hand and say, hey, can somebody help me and, find maybe communities and networks in your field.
[00:32:41] Erica: And there's a lot of groups with specific industries that people can join. And so you can figure out how to start building your professional brand in your respective industry.
[00:32:50] Randall: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. So I'm going to recap that a little bit because you mentioned a lot of things that were important.
[00:32:55] Randall: So to start to build your brand, if you've never worked on doing that before one, it's important. So you should do it. Day one, you need to start documenting. Like day one in the job, or if you're already in a job, today's day one, document the work that you're doing and the successes that you're having.
[00:33:13] Randall: You can have like a windsheet. I've advised people this as well. You can bring up a word document or a Google doc you know, somewhere where you can just have it up while you're working on like the other monitor and be like, Oh, this is what we've accomplished today, or this is the numbers on the deal I just closed, we got like close a million dollar deal like that goes on the windsheet, right?
[00:33:30] Randall: It also helps you not only brand yourself internally, but the next time you're going to a job interview, you don't have to make up numbers. You can just be like, here, here's the document. This is what it is. You can prepare that for yourself where you can even share it with your next hiring manager.
[00:33:44] Randall: It's like, this is what I've accomplished. I've tracked everything. It's work, but work is what gets you to where you want to be. So record what you do, integrate yourself into other teams. Keep an open mind make sure you're visible to senior leaders. And with that be proactive because nobody was reaching out to you to have those meetings with senior leaders.
[00:34:06] Randall: You said, I want to be visible to them. I'm going to request an audience with them, that's appropriate. And you get jobs by having a better relationship, you put yourself in a situation to be the one that got tapped on the shoulder next time that there was an opportunity, right?
[00:34:20] Erica: Yep.
[00:34:21] Randall: Yeah, the other thing I would say is you said something about, I do feel like people feel like they are burdensome by reaching out for help or reaching out for a coffee or reaching out for a lunch.
[00:34:31] Randall: I would disagree with that because people love talking about themselves, like Randall, tell me how great you think you are. We'll be here all day. Like, thank you for asking such a great question. Right? But if you want to have a coffee with somebody to figure out how they want to deal or how they got to be a CEO of a company or how they just got managed to get the job that they have.
[00:34:54] Randall: 90 percent of the time, they're going to welcome that chance to speak with you. The only hang up that typically happens is coordinating schedules to make it happen.
[00:35:05] Erica: Yes.
[00:35:05] Randall: That's the biggest challenge. And then as far as branding outside of work goes I wrote down a few notes of I guess the only comment I have here is that as you were you're speaking is I think people think that the job market in 2024 is tight.
[00:35:21] Randall: I agree and acknowledge that. Opportunities are abundant. People just have to put themselves in a situation to be open to the opportunities. And all the things that Erica had mentioned earlier, I think, are ways to be proactive in the job market, to put yourself in a position to be able to obtain one of those opportunities.
[00:35:41] Randall: Like no one's going to come knock on your door and say, Hey, do you want this job? But if you're proactive network, if you build a personal brand, I think all of those things are putting you in a better situation for one of those numerous opportunities that are in the job market in 2024.
[00:35:56] Erica: Absolutely. Yeah, I agree.
[00:35:58] Erica: And I think the last point I would just call out is rejection is inevitable and it happens to everybody, and I think from my experience and again, not like in statement, but I've worked with enough people that have given me this feedback is that, you know, the moment that they're getting a rejection, then they feel like they can't go back and try again.
[00:36:17] Erica: That is the furthest thing from the truth. So I think just acknowledging and mentally preparing yourself for the fact that you do have to be, persistent and have that perseverance sometimes. And yes, it can be exhausting, you know, you can feel drained sometimes, but it is going to pay off.
[00:36:33] Erica: And sometimes, that rejection. Is redirection and you can always try again. And just telling yourself that and just being ready to go into that, knowing this is not the end game because I get one though, or because that one person I messaged that one time to have a coffee chat, didn't respond to me.
[00:36:50] Erica: Okay. Like you can always try again, or we can try someone else. Right. So I think just keeping that perspective too is really important or we've had maybe a sour situation before and so we're a bit tainted because of, an interaction that happened previously. So I think we just always have to kind of come in with that fresh mindset of like today's a new day.
[00:37:09] Erica: The opportunities like you said are abundant and I have to just keep reaching to create those opportunities.
[00:37:14] Randall: Yeah, excellent. I'm going to ask you a question from a hiring manager perspective from your experience. What's the most effective and efficient way for organizations or hiring managers to evaluate and hire talent.
[00:37:27] Randall: So, what makes me ask this question is I think the trickle down effect of stupidity that I mentioned earlier is I see in the job market, there's a lot of different ways that people are trying to assess talent. And I think a lot of people are doing it poorly. In my opinion, I don't think there's any reason why you need to have seven interviews with four different departments and then give a presentation.
[00:37:55] Randall: I think that's unrealistic expectation for a candidate, and I don't think it helps the organization figure out who's the most talented and competent person to bring in out of this, candidate pool. So maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I'm asking you. So from a perspective of a hiring manager, what do you think is the most effective and efficient way to evaluate and hire talent?
[00:38:17] Erica: Yeah, I think just acknowledge it 100 percent I agree with you. You don't need to jump through hoops in order to evaluate and I think the more people you get involved in the process, then that means more room, for conflicting opinions as well. So I personally think that when we think about evaluation, it should very much be, we're looking at a resume.
[00:38:37] Erica: Based on the resume, does this person appear to meet the criteria for the role? Yes or no? Let's not look at where this person graduated, the year that they graduated, where they currently live now. Based on the actual experience, do they meet the criteria? Yes or no? And if that is a yes, then okay, let's go into an interview process.
[00:38:56] Erica: Interview processes that are going to look different based on role. So, like, if you are a software developer, then yes, I think you may have to do some sort of, coding evaluation and then maybe you have a follow up interview for more of kind of a culture ad type of interview and just behavioral questions or whatever.
[00:39:12] Erica: That makes sense to me. Or if, say, you're in marketing, you know, maybe you bring your portfolio and kind of show some of the results from, some clients you work with. That makes sense to me, but when it comes to hiring, it should always be, do you meet the criteria, yes or no, based on what's on the CV or the resume?
[00:39:28] Erica: You should be the one interviewing them because you're the one that is going to be directly working with that person. And then I do think it should probably maybe be someone else on the team that's also interviewing. And you also need to be ready to answer questions that the job seeker has, because the same way you're the one interviewing, and I think hiring managers a lot of times miss this, they are also going to be the ones working there.
[00:39:54] Erica: So they deserve to ask questions and interview you as well, because it should be a mutual fit. And so I think it should be maybe if I had the label, number of interviews, if we're going past 3 interviews, I really think that is, come on, if we can't make a decision after three interviews, what are we doing, and if we're going to have people jump through all these hoops, that deters the person from, you know, when they walk in that door, let's just think about candidate experience, even if they go through 25 interviews, and then you hire them.
[00:40:23] Erica: When they're walking that door, day one, there's probably going to be a little bit of resentment in there somewhere because they have to go through such a rigorous process just to get to this stage. So you're already setting that foundation and that tone for, quite frankly, setting up the candidate, the job seeker for failure when they're walking the door.
[00:40:39] Erica: So I think companies need to get off the high horse because there's some companies that are on this high horse of like, Oh, there's all these job seekers in the market now. Yes, the market has flipped. Yes, you know, a few years ago, it was more of a candidate's market.
[00:40:52] Erica: And yes, now there's a flood of job seekers, a lot of great talent, but that doesn't mean you get to put people through hoops in order to get to the point of making a decision. You should be able to read the resume, look at it. Yes. No. If it's yes, a couple of interviews and let's make a decision. So that's my two cents there.
[00:41:09] Randall: Yeah. I agree. I mean, any different jobs are going to require different processes, right?
[00:41:13] Randall: Depending like if your job is to give presentations, you're likely going to have to give a presentation, but let's make sure we're setting up a candidate. Up for success and appropriately evaluating it and maybe that's the third interview, the presentation, but like not the seventh, right?
[00:41:27] Randall: You don't need to speak with on a, like a software company of like 300 people, to talk to seven people through the interview process is a ridiculous percentage of the population of that organization that you have to talk to before you get in the door. It's absurd. I appreciate you sharing that.
[00:41:42] Randall: A couple questions I guess flipping back to you What's your favorite failure that you've had in your personal professional life and what did you learn from it?
[00:41:52] Erica: Hmm. In my personal or professional?
[00:41:54] Randall: Yeah. Favorite failure?
[00:41:55] Erica: This is me being very, very brutally honest, but you know what?
[00:41:59] Erica: It is what it's learned opportunity. So professional failure. There was a point in my career where I decided I couldn't decide on job that I wanted to do. So I actually accepted two jobs at once. And that backfired on me miserably. I also burned out very quickly, so I had to let one of those jobs go.
[00:42:20] Erica: But I did so in a very poor manner where I just, sent an email and was like, Yep, I'm not coming back. In hindsight, I learned from it, that was a learning opportunity for me and I, you know, that was my way of like, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, finesse the system and I'm going to figure out what I want to do.
[00:42:35] Erica: But it just, it was a failure. So yeah.
[00:42:37] Randall: How long did you do the two jobs for?
[00:42:39] Erica: I was like two months.
[00:42:41] Randall: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I don't have a problem with people doing that. I think that like, that's fair game. Organizations would look at that and be like, Oh, this person had two full time jobs.
[00:42:50] Randall: It's okay for somebody to have two jobs if one of them's bartending on the weekend, because you don't pay me enough money to be here full time. But it's not okay for me to have another lucrative full time job. Like make, make that make sense. Right. But people wouldn't think that way, that I'm gonna take both jobs if companies did a better job of being a better company in my opinion.
[00:43:14] Randall: Yeah. What's the most influential book you've ever read?
[00:43:18] Erica: Ooh, that's a great question.
[00:43:20] Erica: That is a good question. Let's see if it's here.
[00:43:22] Erica: Okay.So my favorite book ever that I recommend to people to read. Don't Believe Everything You Think, this book changed my life. And the reason it changed my life is because a lot of times we are, our own worst enemy in the sense that if we could just get out of our own way, we could achieve so much.
[00:43:39] Erica: But that negative chatter is always there. And so this book for me has been very, very much had a big impact on my life. And has allowed me to break the chains of some of the conditioned thinking, just things that were ingrained, you know, as a kid, kind of growing up in the way I saw myself and the way I saw the world.
[00:43:58] Erica: It just has helped me break that barrier in my belief system.
[00:44:01] Randall: Excellent. Thank you for sharing.
[00:44:03] Erica: So I guess,putting back on like a recruiter and organization hats here going back to the conversation that we had about hiring people. It's also been my experience that I think that organizations, because of the trickle down effect of stupidity as I've been referring to it, are evaluating the wrong skills.
[00:44:23] Randall: So I was just wondering if that's been your observation as well and why is that and I guess maybe to give you an example is you know, I've been going through the interview process myself for certain roles and part of what I would do full time is you know, it would come down to like giving a presentation to executives. And so they want to see that I can present to executives.
[00:44:47] Randall: I don't have a problem doing that. I do have a problem of an organization expecting me to invest 20 hours of my life into a fake presentation and that, not to understand that it's a fake presentation. So I've gotten some feedback and a few of these presentations I've given, they're like, Oh, we didn't quite understand where the numbers came from.
[00:45:06] Randall: It was like, okay, cool. It's a fake presentation.
[00:45:09] Erica: It's fictitious. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:10] Randall: It's a mock presentation. Like, I don't know what, are you evaluating if I'm a good bullshitter or if I'm a good actor, then I can understand that feedback that I didn't make up a good enough story to sell you where these numbers came from, but it's make believe, right?
[00:45:27] Randall: So I don't think that they know enough because they're stupid. That they are evaluating the wrong things, but like, I didn't know where your numbers came from. It's fucking made up. Right. So that's been my experience, but that's why I asked the question, but I'm sure it happens in other areas. So my question is, like, have you seen that happen?
[00:45:46] Randall: And why do you think that that takes place?
[00:45:49] Erica: Yeah, I personally think the reason, the biggest reason it takes place is the process internally is broken. They're not aligned on what they're evaluating. And because they're not aligned on what they're evaluating and they're not clear, then that creates that bottleneck and a process where then you have one person who might be looking for X and this person's looking for Y and they need to be united in what they're actually evaluating and looking for.
[00:46:15] Erica: So I think that's the biggest and I, and I say this because. The example you just gave me, but also just thinking about when I would evaluate feedback from interviews. So one of the jobs that I had was when candidates would go through interviews, I would have to make sure that I was going through the feedback and evaluating that feedback.
[00:46:31] Erica: And there were so many times. That it was clear that the interviewer who was interviewing. Didn't actually understand what they were evaluating and so they were asking questions that I'm like, why are you even asking this question? This has nothing to do with the role. This has nothing to do with, you know, what the actual hiring manager is going to be looking for.
[00:46:53] Erica: And this now means I have to go in and ask the candidate to do another interview. It would be that bad. So I think it's just a gap internally where they don't align on how their process is going to go when it comes to interviewing and training, whoever is actually going to be interviewing.
[00:47:11] Erica: Because that's the other thing I think is the training component is that they're not setting that clear expectation within the team, how to go about actual hiring. So, these people that are interviewing haven't been taught how to interview what they need to be looking for. So they're just kind of going with what they know.
[00:47:27] Erica: And what they think, what they think they should be looking for and what they think is not actually what is required, you know, for the role or what they should be evaluating. So it's very much the internal process is broken.
[00:47:41] Randall: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I think that organizations do a poor job of this.
[00:47:48] Randall: Most of the time, I would say, but they owe it to the candidates to do better, organizations with leaders owe it to the people that they lead to be good leaders or to teach their leaders how to be good leaders. It's not just something that just happens overnight, right?
[00:48:02] Randall: Just because you get a promotion doesn't mean you're a good leader. That's a skill set in and of itself. And the same thing with hiring talent. Just because you're good at doing job x doesn't mean that you're good at hiring for job x because that's a different skill set that to have and instead of just saying hey you know interview and this is I think partly true this overlaps with the seven interview styles because maybe three of those people are actually competent interviewers, but then you have four other people's opinions that don't know how to interview people that are Interjecting into the process of whether somebody should be hired or not. But they don't know what they're doing. Um,
[00:48:40] Erica: Yeah, yeah.
[00:48:41] Randall: So with that said, what would your advice to candidates be in a scenario where it's maybe early stages of an interview process, but they're already starting to see red flags and get bad vibes that, you know, I had my second interview and the person was late and they didn't know what they were talking about.
[00:49:00] Randall: And it was obvious that they didn't review my resume beforehand. When you're starting to see that, obviously as a candidate, you want a position, but should they proceed? Should they withdraw? Should they send an email? Hey, listen, when you guys start to be more professional, I'll start to be more professional, like come back to me when you have your shit together.
[00:49:18] Randall: What should happen? What should the candidate do?
[00:49:20] Erica: Yeah. This is a tricky one too, because one thing you just said right now is that, a lot of times especially if you don't have a job and you need a job. We see the flags, but we're willing to put up with more crap, so to speak, right?
[00:49:33] Erica: So I think it depends on what is your situation, you know, so if, say, maybe you're currently employed and you're actively interviewing, trying to get out, that would be a scenario where I would say, if you're seeing the flags, I would not be proceeding forward with that interview process. I would honestly to your point, I would be sending an email and giving feedback based on your experience.
[00:49:53] Erica: And I've received those emails myself when I was in recruiting based on some of our interviewers that, you know, Hey, this is how my interview went. And like that feedback is important because you need to know, and how interviews are going. Because again, we need to make sure we have people in the right place.
[00:50:06] Erica: And if there's somebody that shouldn't be interviewing that the company needs to reevaluate that, but going back to the actual job seeker. So if it's somebody who is not employed and finds himself in that situation, I would say that that would be where I would go back and start asking questions. I would try and stay as close to the recruiter, for example, because typically you're going through that process with a recruiter.
[00:50:29] Erica: And the recruiter is like the project manager of the role where they're the ones facilitating, you know, kind of that process. So I would be asking in the very beginning. What is the interview process? What is the timeline? Who am I going to be meeting with? What, should I expect to be preparing for?
[00:50:43] Erica: Not all recruiters, and I'll openly acknowledge, will be giving that information, because not all recruiters are great recruiters. So you get some recruiters that are really good at their job. And sometimes it's like, who am I talking to? But I would say, if you're seeing those flags, I would encourage that person to probably continue interviewing if they can.
[00:50:58] Erica: Proceed with that interview process if it's a dire, like, I need. This job, you know what I mean? Like this is going to make or break my family. I would say sometimes we have to do what we have to do. So I think we need to just know going into that situation, what your personal situation is.
[00:51:13] Erica: I personally would advise, if you can. Get out of it, get out of it, because if you're seeing the flags from that beginning stage, that is a good signal as to typically what you can expect if you get hired out of the company.
[00:51:25] Randall: Yeah, I would agree. It's a tough scenario if you need a job, but I would say I would agree with Erica that continue to proceed with the interview process.
[00:51:33] Randall: Hopefully you get the job, but then keep looking for your next job. Just because you've have a little bit of breathing room doesn't mean that you're allowed to take your foot off the gas because it is likely that that's indicative of the culture that you're going to be brought into.
[00:51:46] Randall: I had a recent interview, I think I'm going to send an email. I had a recent interview scenario. Where the hiring manager was late for the first, same person, late for the, for two interviews that we were supposed to have, we arranged a 15 minute call for the first step. She told me to call her at this time at 1: 30, called her at that time at 1: 30, didn't answer the phone, called me back like later in the day. And I happen to be available. And then for the next official Zoom interview, so she was late for that call, called me back. And then she said the recruiter would reach out to me between meeting A and meeting B.
[00:52:18] Randall: The recruiter never reached out to me between interview A and interview B. I sent the recruiter an email saying, Hey, you know, happy to virtually meet you. Let me know if you need anything from me. Didn't hear anything and then the zoom meeting with the hiring manager who was late to calling me back or didn't answer the phone. She was 15 minutes late for the zoom meeting, zoom interview And the only reason why she hopped on the zoom interview was because I had sent her an email while I'm in the zoom call saying like hey, do we need to reschedule this or like are we good to go?
[00:52:49] Randall: And then she hops on and then and she's trying to like rush through the process, make it like a 30 minute interview instead of a 45 minute interview. I just don't think she did a good job of asking me pertinent questions that would identify how competent I would be in the role.
[00:53:03] Randall: And she's like, you know, that's a hard, hard thing to say. Like, Hey, I would be excellent in this job, but that interview didn't go well, but it didn't go well because of me. It didn't go well because you're shit. Right?
[00:53:13] Erica: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:13] Randall: I mean, that's unacceptable from an organization standpoint, right?
[00:53:16] Randall: Yeah,
[00:53:16] Erica: I agree.
[00:53:17] Randall: Yeah. Yeah. They, they fail my test. Um,
[00:53:20] Randall: Erica, two last questions, but where do you see momentum in the job market? Today, and today is we're recording this in July 2024.
[00:53:29] Erica: Yeah. So when I think about fields, healthcare is always going to be big one where you see momentum tech, small tech, so not necessarily big tech, small tech is another area where we're starting to see momentum again, because it had slowed down.
[00:53:43] Erica: Also, when you think about data analytics is a big area of field to get into. You hear, people talking about that all the time. Cyber security is another area that's up and coming right now. That's big. I'm trying to think about company size, so I would tell people, you know, stay open when it comes to considering companies right now, because what I'm seeing as far as companies hiring, we're seeing a lot of more of the startups and even smaller companies are starting to pick up momentum with hiring and then we're seeing that some of like mid, large and kind of these mega corporations are being a little bit more close to the chest When it comes to hiring me, so I do encourage people just to kind of stay flexible and open when it comes to thinking about companies that they want to work for.
[00:54:24] Erica: And that could mean the difference between getting a job right now and not, you know, having that flexibility. So those are some of the areas that come to mind automatically. But I do think that, right now, at least in the U. S. So this is not other parts of the world that the election also is having something to do with hiring.
[00:54:44] Erica: Because typically, when you have election years, you do tend to see hiring be impacted because companies are staying a bit more close to the chest, also. So that's also a factor for people to just keep in mind is that once the election is over, we will start to see that dynamic shift in the market, too.
[00:55:03] Randall: Okay, excellent. And for the listeners, where can they find you at?
[00:55:06] Erica: So please find me on social media, Instagram, TikTok, Meta, or Facebook Career Diva Coaching. Career Diva Coaching.
[00:55:14] Randall: All right. We'll include that in the show notes, Erica, thank you so much for the conversation. Thank you for putting up with me today.
[00:55:20] Randall: I love to shit talk a little bit and learn from others, I guess shit talk as I learned from others, but I've learned a lot from the conversation today. I'm hopeful that our listeners will as well.
[00:55:31] Randall: And I, I did hear this um, we didn't talk about during the episode, but I did hear in one of your reels that you were talking about, finding your voice.
[00:55:38] Randall: So I wanted to thank you for finding your voice, sharing your story before. And you know, with me today and to help others get from where they're at to where they want to be. So kudos to you and thank you for being here today.
[00:55:51] Erica: Yeah. Thank you, Randall. I appreciate it. This was fun. So thank you for having me.
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