The Randal Osché Podcast: Season 1 | Episode 18
On this episode of The Randall Osché Podcast, we welcome John Luteran, content manager at Destination Cleveland, attorney, and writer. John shares his career journey, from law to the entertainment industry and ultimately finding fulfillment in marketing for Cleveland. John’s candid insights into career pivots, burnout, and the personal challenges of weight loss highlight the importance of resilience, self-awareness, and carving out a life you love.
What You’ll Learn:
Career Resets: John's experiences with career breaks and resets, including major life shifts.
Navigating Burnout: How John recognized career dissatisfaction and made the brave choice to walk away from unfulfilling work.
Resilience and Growth: Lessons on perseverance through job transitions and how each challenge contributed to his personal and professional development.
Living with Purpose: John’s journey to creating a life built on passion and authenticity.
Tune in for a deep dive into self-awareness, making tough decisions, and understanding that it’s never too late to build a life that truly fulfills you.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Youtube, Podcast Index, Podcasts Addict, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
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Highlights
Resilience and Adaptability: Cleveland's history and its people's resilience underscore the importance of adapting to challenges.
Career Transitions and Self-Discovery: John's varied career path shows the value of exploring different avenues to find true passion.
Honesty and Self-Reflection: Being honest with yourself is vital for making meaningful life changes.
Work-Life Balance and Fulfillment: Prioritizing personal passions and quality of life leads to greater fulfillment.
The Power of Purpose: Success is about finding meaning in work and building a strong support system.
SHOW NOTES
Questions this conversation has Randall Pondering
"What steps can someone take to build a career and personal life that truly aligns with their values and passions?"
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments!
And that's it for today's conversation here on the Randall Osché podcast. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope that you've enjoyed listening as much as we've enjoyed recording it.
Many many thanks to our guests today for sharing their knowledge, their experience and their life lessons. If you found today's conversation insightful, interesting, inspiring, please join our growing community by subscribing. Randall Osché podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and never ever miss another episode.
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The Randall Osché Podcast - John Luteran (Episode 18)
[00:00:00] John: If you're sticking to something, you need to grow. You need to grow in that situation and get to a point where something's going on. But if you're just running the hamster wheel for five years, and you don't get anywhere else, and you don't learn anything else, you got to get out of there. You have to find something else because it's just a recipe for disaster.
[00:00:17] AI: Hello, and welcome to the Randall Osché podcast, where we create a safe space for meaningful and thought provoking conversations. We have long form interviews with entrepreneurs, thought leaders, artists, and change makers in order to deconstruct their journeys and to pass out valuable life lessons and life changing perspectives for listeners like yourself.
[00:00:41] AI: So that you can, as Randall says, learn their lessons without their scars. So, whether you're tuning in on your daily commute, or during a workout, or cooking dinner, we are happy to have you join us. So, take a seat, relax, grab a cup of tea, and join the conversation. Now, let's dive into this week's episode.
[00:01:06] AI: You made it
[00:01:22] Randall: John Luteran, welcome to the show. For those of the listeners who don't know you yet, why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself.
[00:01:29] John: My name is John Luteran. I'm currently the content manager for B2C and Live Work at Destination Cleveland. We are the Convention and Visitors Bureau of the City of Cleveland. What we do there is mainly In my area, we market Cleveland to the rest of the world. We bring in large scale events conventions, meetings, things like that.
[00:01:50] John: This year alone we've hosted the NCAA women's final four. We hosted a ton of people who came in for the total solar eclipse. And we just had the super bowl of meetings ASAE's annual meeting, the American society of association executives. These are all the people who make the decisions of where conventions go.
[00:02:10] John: So it's always a really big deal. Had a really great time with that. And then to finish out this year, we're going to be hosting. Every third year, Cleveland, home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, hosts the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony. So, we will have everybody here for that, too.
[00:02:23] John: It's been quite a ride. I'm also a licensed attorney and a writer.
[00:02:28] Randall: So, you said content manager, right?
[00:02:31] John: Mm hmm.
[00:02:32] Randall: What's a content manager do?
[00:02:33] John: So for the most part, I am in charge of everything that's like visitor and local facing on our website. It would be at our website and beyond I write copy for print publications too, that we put out things that we do on social though we have you know, we have social media managers that do a lot of that, but write blogs, edit blogs come up with strategies for the brand and, you know, our seasonal strategies, event strategies, things like that.
[00:03:00] John: And how we're going to across a ton of mediums, whether it's the written word podcasts we've done video series to o. All in service of not just spreading the word about Cleveland to people to try to get them to visit here and now live and work here, but also just to elevate the travel and tourism community in Cleveland and that's who we work for really.
[00:03:21] John: We work for the people that are working to service those visitors and, and our locals, like people in restaurants, people in our major attractions, people in hotels.
[00:03:31] Randall: What does the rest of the world need to know about Cleveland?
[00:03:34] John: I think the world needs to know that. If you've never been here, you have no idea. That's largely what we hear when people come is that, oh my God, I didn't know you guys were on a lake.
[00:03:45] John: I didn't know there was such good food here. We have one of the best orchestras in the world. It's routinely talked among like, we, You know, top five. We have free art museums. We have one of the greatest collections in the world. We have the largest theater system outside of New York City. We have the rock and roll's fame.
[00:04:06] John: You know, it's come a long way from, like, the 80s and 90s rust belt image. There have been a lot of cycles of rebirth. A lot of peoplewill make the joke about the burning river, the river catching on fire in the 60s, but what they probably don't know is that was the stimulus for us to get the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency.
[00:04:25] John: We've turned the river into a huge asset for us. We have thousands of acres of parks in our metro park system. It's rated either one or two in the country. This is a place with a lot to offer with a ridiculously low cost of living compared to some other places. And the people are the best.
[00:04:45] John: Honestly, it's a real cliche to a lot of people, but whenever we ask somebody like, what's your favorite thing about Cleveland? And they'll say the people,it's the Midwest thing. It's not that dissimilar to Pittsburgh or Detroit or Indianapolis. Midwest nice is a real thing.
[00:04:59] John: It's not just like a catchphrase. It means real nice sometimes. So yeah, it's just, It's this incredible place that I'm very happy to call home and I'm very happy to tell people about.
[00:05:11] Randall: What's yourfavorite thing about Cleveland as a person, individual?
[00:05:15] John: I think it's gotta be, there's a resiliency to people here.
[00:05:19] John: I think it's a thing many people in the Midwest share. I always sayit's really easy to be from New York or LA or Boston and rest on those laurels and people know where you're from and what your city's about. It's harder to do it here. As the man himself LeBron James once said nothing is given everything is earned in this city.
[00:05:37] John: There's a work ethic here. There's a self deprecation. And there's really nothing like watching a group of Clevelanders enjoy their city. There's four or five companies, small companies that are very successful, that just make shirts that about things in Cleveland. And it's like, that's something somebody said to us during this convention is that I've never seen so many shirts of a city, just people wearing them randomly.
[00:06:02] John: And there's a lot of pride here. People grow up here. They stay here. There's a lot of generations intact here. So it's a place with a lot of history. It's a place with a lot of love.
[00:06:11] Randall: Before I get too sidetracked, tell me about the Burning River. Is that a real thing? That's a
[00:06:16] John: It's a real thing. I believe it was the 60s.
[00:06:19] John: The pollution was so bad in the river because, you know, we were industrial Mecca. I mean, I think at one time Cleveland was the fifth largest city in the country and there were no rules. And people would dump into the river. One day it was especially hot day, a river caught on fire because there was oil in there, there was garbage or whatever.
[00:06:39] John: And it became a flashpoint across, the butt of a million jokes, but it became a flashpoint across the country about like, this is a problem. And we're not the only place where this happened, but we are the one that everybody knows about. And our leaders in the city. Went to Congress, talked to people, took it very seriously and cleaned it up.
[00:06:57] John: And like I said, the result of a lot of our efforts is the ETA and making sure that stuff like this doesn't happen again. And here we are today. We are developing that riverfront in a lot of interesting ways. There's a project coming up on this part of the river called the Irish Bend.
[00:07:16] John: It's the Cuyahoga river, by the way the Crooked river. We're building one of the largest parks and recreational areas, Riverside. There's no project like it in the country. We've taken something that's been the butt of a joke, something that's been, you know, shameful and turned it into a positive which is, again, I think it's a very just like working class, the best thing.
[00:07:38] Randall: I think, you said resilience earlier. It's a story of resilience, I think. You also mentioned it's easy to be from like New York or Los Angeles or Miami but when you think of say, professional opportunities or opportunities in general,
[00:07:52] Randall: Would you say there more or less or equal to opportunities in Cleveland versus other bigger cities?
[00:08:01] Randall: What's your perspective there?
[00:08:02] John: I think it would really depend. Of course, just by sheer tonnage, there are more jobs and industries in the largest cities in our country. And something that we're seeing doing this live work objective that we have through this thing called the Cleveland Talent Alliance, which is a local consortium of organizations in our city that are, trying to attract more people, but what we're finding is, yeah, I mean, there are so many opportunities for people to start something of their own and to, get in on the ground floor of something good. We've got a top notch Medical community here headlined by the Cleveland Clinic we're growing in advanced manufacturing.
[00:08:42] John: We've taken the old way we did things in manufacturing. We moved more into the technology side of advanced manufacturing. And again, with the low cost of living. It's that, people these days are more concerned about their quality of life than ever. It's not so much about how much money they're gonna make and how high up they're going to get People are really like, not so much that they're going to take less, but like, if it means a better quality of life for them and time that they can spend with their families or what their passions they're going to do that.
[00:09:15] John: And I think that Cleveland in particular, and a lot of these Midwestern cities that, you know, you're seeing a lot of people Leave them in the major cities and start migrating different places in the country. We're lucky to be one of them. I think you have a better opportunity for, you know, the pursuit of happiness in Cleveland than you might in one of those.
[00:09:33] John: Large cities, I mean, try buying a house in LA it's not going to work out for you unless you're like Elon Musk or something, you know,
[00:09:40] Randall: I think that we just maybe got the catchy thumbnail title, better pursuit of happiness.
[00:09:45] John: All right.
[00:09:46] Randall: So
[00:09:47] Randall: I don't want to get too far removed from this in the interview. I'll back up a minute. You weren't always a content manager. And I know this because I met you because we used to work back together in the day, but talk to me a little bit about.
[00:10:02] Randall: As thorough or not as you want to be about it, but professionally speaking, like, you know, you said you're a writer attorney and now content manager, full time job, right? Yeah. You know, writing is part of that. How did you get to, from where you were to where you're at today? And how does that look professionally?
[00:10:21] Randall: And then if you want to add. Like, along the journey, how did you feel about, the work life balance that you were creating for yourself?
[00:10:28] John: Yeah, so I kind of always thought that I was going to go to grad school or something like that. And when it turned out I was very bad at math, it kind of turned into, well, you're not going to go to med school.
[00:10:40] John: But my decisions were between I was a psychology major. I was either going to go get my PhD, become a shrink or go to law school. I picked law school. Would I pick it again? Maybe not. It was a great experience. It taught me an invaluable way to think about things and how toorganize arguments and make arguments, like make my case, you know, as it were, and just a knowledge of like how things work.
[00:11:07] John: So, the first stumbling block in my career came before my second year of law school, I tore my Achilles. And I was going to be out for at least a couple weeks, and when I told the administration, they were like, there's no way you're going to catch up, you're going to have to take the semester off, you can come back next semester, it's no big deal, it's just not worth you coming back, you'll never get, get there.
[00:11:30] John: So, I ended up with this 3 4 months of like, Recuperation and just not like wandering in the desert or anything, but really thinking about what did I want? AndI started to look at other programs, an MFA program and creative writing. Ultimately, I decided to finish it out.
[00:11:47] John: The first year law schools is always the worst because it's just, it's learning how to be a law student and getting that out of the way, it's not like the rest of it's downhill, but the rest of it is more manageable. So I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to finish this out. Once I got out, I got out about a semester late than the rest of my class.
[00:12:07] John: And I passed the bar, everything like that got admitted in May of 2008. Just in time for the economy to crash in September of 2008 at which point law firms were slashing their books. They were firing people and now I was in a job market, not just with new graduates. I was in the job market with experienced attorneys.
[00:12:26] John: So that ended up being a lot of job interviews a lot of good ones, but most of them, if not all ended in, we just can't hire you. We just can't afford it right now. But that did lead to me getting overflow work from people.
[00:12:40] John: And so I hung up my own shingle, as they say, and I started working as a solo attorney. Some of my friends who got jobs in actual law firms and stuff, they weren't going to see the courtroom for a couple of years. I actually had a few trials. I was in court 3-0, no big deal. But one thing I started to learn about myself is I'm not necessarily built to be on my own and to handle that kind of pressure. So I had some people who were, in my corner that I could talk to that were kind of legal mentors, but I was on my own, ultimately, and doing that on your own in the climate that we were in, it was just really tough.
[00:13:18] John: So I fell back on one of my old internships and, first left turn in my career. I became a production coordinator at the Greater Cleveland Film Commission, and that is an organization that attracts film and TV productions and things like that to the city. They had recently got a new guy in charge who was a Spielberg dude, worked for HBO, never had anybody like this up at home.
[00:13:39] John: And we also had a tax credit in place. So while I was there, we had the movie The Avengers there. We had that and along with three other movies there. This summer I was a production coordinator and that was wild for me because film, TV, that kind of thing. That is, That is my thing. That is something that I follow every day.
[00:13:58] John: I'm really interested in the business side of it. I'm really interested in the creative side of it. And so I thought, man, I'm here. This is it. I feel awesome. And once all those movies left town, I was told we don't have to budget. We can't keep you on. You can keep coming in for free if you want.
[00:14:13] John: I'm like, well, can't do that. So, and. Fast forward, I think it was like two or three months later, I end up working at a bank in investment compliance with one Mr. Randall Osché, which you had only been there for a couple months right before me.
[00:14:30] Randall: I think so. I was at PNC in other roles for two years ish before then.
[00:14:36] Randall: Yeah. And then I believe we got hired right around the same time in that department. But, yeah.
[00:14:42] John: I think so. I think. From what I remember, I started in February and I think you had started in like November before me.
[00:14:48] John:
[00:14:48] Randall: I don't remember. there was a department.
[00:14:50] Randall: It was like, there was four people. There was two people that were already there. And then John and I were like the new guys.
[00:14:57] John: Yeah, the rooks. Yeah.
[00:14:59] John: And it was odd because in Cleveland, the bank used to be National City and it had been acquired by PNC. And so it was, you were in Pittsburgh while I was in Cleveland.
[00:15:08] John: Our bosses were in Cleveland. Yeah. You're welcome. And uh, and, for me, I was really leaning on my legal education there, but it was a totally different experience because I had no financial background at all. And so that was a huge crash course for me. It showed me what I was capable of really because I honestly didn't know sometimes if I was ever going to get up to speed and I feel likeI kind of did.
[00:15:36] John: But again, learned so much and as you could Probably attest as well. It was tough for a while. Like it was tough. The work was a treadmill. It was in service to the corporation. It did not feel right. And so a few years later, I went back to my boss at the film commission.
[00:15:53] John: I was like, Hey, I'm thinking about quitting. Like, what can we do here?
[00:15:57] Randall: How did you make that decision? So like, I'm going to be candid with my experience there. Not necessarily the fault of our supervisors. But now that I have more experience in that field, I was a rookie then now I'm an experience that the work that they were having us do, we were significantly under qualified and significantly underpaid to do what they were asking us to do.
[00:16:23] Randall: Significantly, which makes me think that whoever was making those decisions to be like, Oh, we want this department to do these things and respond to, you know, regulators or whatever. And we're only going to give them a budget of X. Yeah, super inappropriate. And that put just tremendous pressure on us.
[00:16:43] Randall: So it was not the greatest experience, but to John's point, like, you know, the obstacle is the way, and I figured out a way how to stick around and keep collecting the paycheck. And I use that as a launch pad for the rest of my career in finance, but I moved on as well. But I don't remember if you left first or I left first, but what was the moment where you were like, yeah, this dog ain't going to hunt. I need to exit this situation.
[00:17:10] John: I think I was just tired of the treadmill. I was tired of going in and working so hard on something that I just didn't care about at all. I knew that, you know, there were other people who were like all in on this stuff. And people we worked with and they lived for it.
[00:17:28] John: And that's great. That wasn't me. This was a job. This was a means to an end for me. I found important the work we were doingas compliance people. In making sure that everybody did the right thing. The seasonal aspect of it, the cycle, it just wore on me and to the point where I just wasn't stimulated and I was just sleepwalking through my life, in so many ways. And that's why I didn't even know what I was going to do, but I knew that a field that I loved was, you know, the entertainment industry and I had somebody who I could talk to about that and, a couple conversations later,I'm the director of interactive entertainment at the greater Cleveland film commission, wherethey wanted to get more into the new media space with like video games, virtual reality, things like that stuff that he had no, real grasp on.
[00:18:13] John: And, I'm a child of the eighties. I grew up with video games. Video game industry in the same way. I'm interested in the business of it.
[00:18:19] John: I'm interested in the culture of it. Everything. So he liked what I had to say. And the only catch was, I would have to run all of the marketing and social media for the Film Commission. I had never done that before. I had no marketing experience. I was on social media. I knew how to tweet.
[00:18:35] John: I had some idea, and I could write. That's the one thing I have, is I could write. I've always been able to write. Even when I was in practice one of the judges, in my cases, he stopped during something and complimented me on how well written and entertaining my brief was, I turned around to my client, I'm like, yeah,
[00:18:51] John: and so like, that was always something I had in my back pocket.
[00:18:53] John: And so I went to work, in this industry that really excited me. I felt alive again in a way that I hadn't been. And not only that, but I was working for my city. I was working for something what I would think was a higher calling for me. Like I was trying to bring notoriety and money to my city.
[00:19:13] John: And that was a phenomenal opportunity. I learned so much. And it was a very small shop. It was like five people and then a couple interns every once in a while. So it was a very small shop. It was very, it was very tough because it was a non profit, you know, relied on donations, but got to be in the middle of some crazy stuff and got to do some amazing things and meet some amazing people that were making great art.
[00:19:37] John: And eventually it gets to a point where, you know, I'm not going to say like the dream becomes a nightmare, but you start to see the walls going up around you and your progress, especially with such a small shot. There was no room for me to go. And I had kind of fallen into a rut.
[00:19:53] John: I remember I left there in October of, I want to say, 17, and that Easter before, I had kind of gotten called to the carpet, because, we weren't raising a lot of money. It's nearly impossible to raise money in this kind of model for the way we operated as a film commission, and I had a really great person on our marketing, our marketing chair of our board, who was a very great mentor to me, named Sarah Malamud, and she was been in the industry for years.
[00:20:20] John: And, I was called to carpet by my boss and, other people that they've decided that the marketing's the problem and I go to her and I'm like, what do I do? Am I really screwing up that bad? She's just like just give them what they want. Just flood the channels and my boss told me you either have to figure out a way to write this shit for you or you got to start looking somewhere else and nobody had ever said that to me.
[00:20:42] John: Nobody had ever been like, you're not cut out for this. I don't know that I totally agree with him for that, but I made the decision that I'm going to turn around and I did turn around and I had an outstanding, evaluation that a few months later and due to some other factors. I started to think about leaving and I was like, I just can't leave.
[00:21:01] John: But also another factor in it was, at this point, as with most of my life, I'm at about a little over 500 pounds. I've been living that way for, like I said, forever. It had gotten to a point where I gotta do something about this. I have to do something about my life.
[00:21:18] John: So it's not only is this a career change, this is an entire life reset. And I resigned and they were very surprised. But immediately then I started cashed out what I had in my 401k so I could get weight loss surgery and turn my life around. And that following January, I had weight loss surgery.
[00:21:37] John: And over the course of a couple of years,I lost about 260 pounds. It's transformed my life, but at the same time, it was a total reset on my life.I kept up with some freelancing and some projects and things like that. But for the most part, I was just kind of recuperating and I was kind of blessed in that way.
[00:21:56] John: There were so many people who I talked to and things that were getting the same surgery and things like that, that didn't have the opportunity to just like take some time off and I'm forever grateful for it. It's like I said, it's changed my life in so many ways, but more than anything, it gave me my life back and gave me the chance to really,build the life that I want for myself.
[00:22:14] John: I really started to lean into the writing and I started just freelancing. And I had several clients but my largest contract turned out to be Destination Cleveland. I started writing blogs for them and then they brought me in a few days a week to like, kind of do day to day stuff that they needed done. I was making a living writing and it was unbelievable to me and fast forward a few years later and a pandemic later you know,after five years, I'm full time, able to do work on this amazing stuff that we're doing right now.
[00:22:46] John: And it's just like this crazy winding road of, pitfalls and perils. You never planned for it.
[00:22:52] Randall: Yeah. So much to unpack there and thank you. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All good stuff. All good stuff. Yeah, you don't need a host. You can do this on your own.
[00:23:01] Randall: So a couple of things. You mentioned this twice, I think, and I wanted to talk about it the first time, so I'm certainly going to go back to it now, is you had, I forget when you mentioned it earlier, but you had like a career break, and then that gave you the opportunity to, oh, the Achilles in law school, and that gave you some time to reflect, because you weren't hustling to go to law school, and you didn't have a job, you had this moment in time, To put yourself first and then when you resigned from the entertainment job, from the film commission.
[00:23:33] Randall: That was like a bigger moment in time where you really took it like a full life reset. But then, you had the surgery and that also gave you time, you said that you were fortunate to have where other people that were going through the same thing didn't. I've had a few moments in my career where it's given me unexpected, like layoffs or, you know, terminations, whatever that have sucked, but it gave me a moment in time in my life where I didn't have to do work for other people and I didn't have to get up and shower and go into the office.
[00:24:10] Randall: I didn't have to get up and drive two hours to commute every day. My day was my own. And as uncomfortable as it was in those moments, those are probably the two biggest pivotal moments in my career slash life.
[00:24:26] Randall: And I believe in from my experience, it was because I had the time to put myself first and I had the time to explore other interests that I wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity to explore. And this podcast is born out of some of those moments, right? I can look back to those moments in time.
[00:24:46] Randall: It wasn't necessarily the exact genesis, but like, you can do cool things online. How can I do cool things online? And here we are having this conversation. So talk to me a little bit about like those two moments in time, if you have anything to add to that perspective that I shared.
[00:25:02] John: So, you know, that first time when I was in school.
[00:25:05] John: It was really just I mean, at the beginning it was all about pain and pain management. So it was really just getting through days, but like towards the end, it was okay, is this for you? Is this what you want to do? Against all my, better angels, you know, I went back and again, I still keep my license.
[00:25:21] John: I'm very proud of that accomplishment, but I just didn't know what I wanted to a certain extent that's always been a kind of a bugaboo for me is just feeling like there is something that is for you somewhere but you're just not in the right place. After I left, you know. Did the life reset after I left the film commission, got weight loss surgery. That was a much longer layoff.
[00:25:44] John: That was a lot more emotional. That was a lot more everything. It really gives you time to think about everything. I got radicalized a little bit politically and economically you know, a little to the left of things, seeing how some things were working and not working. But I really did decide that I'm not going to waste this new life on something that I don't believe in, or it doesn't like feel right to me.
[00:26:08] John: Regardless of what it would mean for my pocketbook, unfortunately, like working in the essentially working in the public sector. I mean, that's, you know, it is what it is. You get as much money as they have budget and kind of thing. And I'm very blessed, to have the job that I have, but if I was in the private sector somewhere, if I stayed with the bank, you know, who knows what would be going on right now.
[00:26:29] John: But I think it's interesting, something that we all experienced during the pandemic. I mean, talk about a time of introspection that on a grand scale. People talk about it, but there's undoubtedly collective trauma we all share from that period of time.
[00:26:46] John: But just look what people were thinking about, like more people were responding to the, you know, racial unrest. And the huge amount of protests. We had to go through an entire election cycle during a pandemic, you could tell people just had nothing better to do than to just think about systems in place, what they were doing with their lives, and some people turned it into a positive and came out the other side. Other people let them down, other paths, but actually making that time in any way, whether you can for yourself or for anybody and giving yourself the room to just think.
[00:27:21] John: And to just like, why am I doing this? What am I doing? What does it mean? That's heady stuff. That's stuff that, in our world, we really can't do, you know? So to have had those opportunities to think, yeah, I mean, maybe I'd be better off if I didn't have all that time, but I'm super thankful for it.
[00:27:39] John: And each one led to a positive outcome, essentially.
[00:27:42] AI: Let's take a quick break from today's episode. If you're enjoying the conversation, please take a moment to look us up. You can find Randall on Instagram at Randall Osché, that's spelled at R A N D A L L O S C H E.
[00:28:01] AI: And you can catch the show notes and other resources at randallosche.com and now back to the episode.
[00:28:07] Randall: Getting back to our days of working together you said that the work didn't fulfill you, but some of the people were really jazzed about it, right? Like the live, dive and breathe it. Do you think that that's true?
[00:28:20] Randall: Or do you think that's a fugue is that they were just faking it because they thought they had to? Do you think that the work that we were doing, like really got people excited? Yeah.
[00:28:29] John: I think some people really like they were into it. I mean, there are people that were working as like financial advisors that were like, you know, you're working at a retail bank and these people think that they're working at Goldman Sachs.
[00:28:39] John: That's one thing, but they're, they're interested in finance. They're interested in the market. There were definitely people on our team that truly found that stuff interesting and you know, we're really good at it. And so I do believe that I do believe that you're right though.
[00:28:55] John: There are some people who are just like, yeah, guys, let's, you know, it's the market. It's, it is what it is. I think some people were, you know, like you're say faking it, for whatever reason, but I do think, yeah, people, you would see people there all the time, it's probably 60 40, if it's not 50 50, of people that are there to do their job because it is a job, and people who are there who are like, I am the master of the universe.
[00:29:19] Randall: Yeah,
[00:29:19] John: and I'm gonna do it at this retail bank.
[00:29:21] Randall: Yeah,
[00:29:21] John: I think some people were actually excited about it and it just wasn't my thing. It was a thing, for me.
[00:29:27] Randall: Follow up to that time period I guess is I oftentimes ask people the question of like What advice would you give your younger self and a lot of people think that I imply regret and,I don't. I don't regret anything I've done.
[00:29:42] Randall: But knowing what I know now after getting 39 years through this journey of life. If I can give this wisdom to the 18 year old version of myself, I think that would be valuable. But for you,what would you tell the younger version of yourself when you were working in the bank in compliance?
[00:30:00] Randall: The reason I'm framing it this way is because you realized at a certain point in time that it wasn't fulfilling you, and that fulfillment was important to you, and you were just coasting through life, and you realized that wasn't cool and you needed to do something else probably.
[00:30:18] Randall: But, knowing what you know now, where you're at, what would you have told the younger version of yourself that was day one in that job?
[00:30:26] John: I think I would just remind them that like, And this is kind of a trick I do for myself, whenever I'm feeling anxious about something is just take this for what it is, learn all you can, and you aren't trapped, you're never trapped. You can always make the decision to leave, you can always go for something else, it might be scary.
[00:30:43] John: It might be hard, but you aren't trapped. I think that is a thing for me that I can feel in a situation, I could feel like I'm trapped and there's nowhere else I would rather be than just not here. I think just reminding them that you know, possibility is about like this doesn't have to be.
[00:31:00] John: I think there was a part of me that was thinking Oh, this is my like 25 year job now, which, it just doesn't happen anymore. It happens for some people, but for the most part, this probably isn't gonna be my last job. I'm probably gonna be two, three other places. That's just the way things work now.
[00:31:15] John: And, even when you're at a bank, the only way for you to move up is to leave, then come back. I mean, people will leave and come back in three months. We have to re register reps and things like that with Fenra, and be like, oh, I remember this guy, and his three complaints, but like, it's one of those things. There's a difference between stagnation and sticking to something.
[00:31:33] John: Yeah.
[00:31:34] John: If you're sticking to something, you need to grow. You need to grow in that situation and get to a point where something's going on. But if you're just running the hamster wheel for five years, and you don't get anywhere else, and you don't learn anything else, you got to get out of there. You have to find something else because it's just a recipe for disaster, I think, from a personal standpoint.
[00:31:54] Randall: Yeah, I would agree. My journey at that bank in different departments might've been like seven years, but it was seven years too long. And the reason why I had made the decision to leave is that I had done everything I was supposed to do. I had the jobs, I had more responsibility, I got a promotion in essence because I got better jobs with more money.
[00:32:17] Randall: Got licensed and then I realized that I'm not the problem. They're the problem. That was my epiphany. It's just like, I've done everything I needed to do and this isn't still working out. This isn't working out for me to accomplish what I want to accomplish. Like it's not serving me the way it should be serving me.
[00:32:34] Randall: And up until that point, it was like a little by little, maybe I'm the problem. Maybe I'm not smart enough. Maybe I'm not doing what I need to do. Maybe I'm not a hard enough worker, but then I just put in the work and I did what I needed to do. And it's just like, no, they're the problem.
[00:32:48] Randall: They're the issue for various reasons, different episode. But but for me, I think. Again, not regret, but I would tell the younger version of myself, expedite that journey, right? And I think that that's to your point is that you're not trapped. I don't think I necessarily felt trapped, but I think for me it would have been like pull that ripcord sooner, right?
[00:33:09] Randall: You don't have to keep doing this, it's like a saying, when somebody shows you who they are, believe them, and the organization kept showing me who they were. And I was just like, ah, nah, this is, this will get better. I'll start making more money in this new job. This new job will be better.
[00:33:24] Randall: And that never worked out for me. It's just like, well, time to go. And was painful, like you said, but I'm better for it.
[00:33:31] John: And I don't know if it's inertia or momentum that being in a job that can have, but at the end of the day, you know, I was so exhausted. Like I was just mentally exhausted. Since then, I don't take nearly as many like PTO days as I used to because I'm legitimately engaged. I want to be at work and I don't, you know, feel sick every day. Like, you know, but it can, it can be hard to overcome that inertia to actually start to reserve any kind of energy for that new search.
[00:34:01] Randall: Agreed. So going back to like the second reset the more serious one with the safety number one,
[00:34:07] Randall: congratulations to you. Thank you. That's a huge accomplishment for like various reasons one to make that decision is no small feat in itself and then to lose the weight keep the weight off and then like reset. Phenomenal. So kudos to you for, for all that. You're welcome.
[00:34:23] Randall: But with that, I think you had mentioned you know, this whole like life reset and living your life the way you wanted to, or figuring out how you actually wanted to live life.
[00:34:35] Randall: And then you also mentioned I guess in the same breath, build the life for myself that I wanted. So, yeah. How did that look? And then how does building the life that you want look have looked or like, are you still working on it?
[00:34:48] John: So I think there was a lot of stuff was like, you know, whether it's personal stuff or professional, being overweight was getting in the way. I had no energy.
[00:34:57] John: I was very anxious and almost every situation and, I was missing out on a lot of life. And this is a thing that has always been something that I needed to handle, but it just was never the right time or never the right thing. I'd lost weight before, but never at this level.
[00:35:13] John: There were medical reasons for it, but also in play of that was eating my feelings and things like that. I originally was embarrassed that I even had to get the surgery because you hear about the people that do it without it.
[00:35:26] John: But eventually I was just like, you know, screw it. I mean, people are all built differently. The one thing I take every day from my cognitive neuropsych class is just every brain is just a lottery of neurons. Everything is so random. It all depends on just this jumble of nerves and impulses that are going to make you who you are and good luck.
[00:35:48] John: Like that's just whatever. If I needed that to do this, so be it. And it was a great tool for me to get to where I needed to go. And once I was on that path, and I had found some success in it, and I'd gotten in a routine, and I was on my way I'd be damned if I'm gonna waste it. on something that I didn't really feel great about or something that was going to drive me back into similar habits. Whether it's depressing me or getting me more anxious or something like that. I didn't want to go backslide at all and also what was the good of doing all this if I was just going to go back to the hamster wheel.
[00:36:22] John: And so I really just dug deep. It's what parts of this would make you happy? And it honestly was the writing. So I have a talent for writing copy. That's been a boon for me. And it's allowed me to see so many different, things, whether it's been like we've had at destination Cleveland, we've had MLB all star game, NFL draft, NBA all star game.
[00:36:42] John: We've had all sorts of events large and small. And just being able to work within the city and you know, do those things for it. It's been great. And I don't ever want to waste the opportunity I gave myself again, you know?
[00:36:56] Randall: Yeah, it's huge. So many people, I think, go through their days, and everybody's built differently.
[00:37:03] Randall: I think some people are built to do this, I think other people aren't built to do this. But they just don't know how to get themselves, unstuck. Right? Some people are meant to be on the hamster wheel, because, that's really what fills their cup. And other people aren't meant to be on the hamster wheel, but they continue to do it, because they don't know how to, pull the ripcord.
[00:37:23] Randall: They're afraid to take the risk. And I was that person as well. Right? Like at least that PNC, I had a steady paycheck. I might've hated the jobs. They might not have been working out to like my benefit, but at least I was getting paid. I had benefits. Those were cool. I guess, even though I didn't need them fortunately.
[00:37:39] Randall: But yeah, I think recognizing the type of person that you are or aren't and, being in service to yourself and no one else.
[00:37:47] Randall: You mentioned like introspection before. How important is that for somebody to be able to be introspective? And is that something you think a lot of people do or perhaps maybe are afraid to do it?
[00:38:02] John: I don't know that everybody's capable of it. For whatever reason and not as any kind of defect, butit's an odd thing to do because you need time and you need a fair amount of quiet in your life and in some way to do that. I'm sure there are people who from high school to 20 years after, they just, got a job, got married, had a family, and there's no time to like stop and think about what's going on.
[00:38:27] John: I think that's probably why you see stuff in midlife crisis where it's like somebody gets to a level where, maybe they're not working as much as they used to and so now they're alone with their thoughts. And now they're like, oh, what have I done? But I don't think it's a hard thing to do, but I don't again I don't think it's necessarily easy.
[00:38:42] John: Not everybody's in therapy. I'm in therapy. But it's so hard to just be honest with yourselves about a lot of things. That's a very bottom line thing is just be honest with yourself. That could be so hard sometimes it's a defense mechanism if you're not being honest with yourself it's like you're delaying some sort of pain of change and putting that off.
[00:39:02] John: And so yeah, I think it's important. I think there are people who whatever their personality is they don't even think about that and don't feel they need it. I feel like if I was less self aware, I'd be more successful. Sometimes.
[00:39:15] Randall: Yeah, that's an interesting point. The reason I asked the question is because I believe I'm a pretty introspective person as well.
[00:39:24] Randall: Tangent. I believe it's to my benefit. Maybe detriment at times, but because I think it's so important for me and I'm pretty good at doing it, I think I recognize when other people don't do it and should do it. That's why I'm curious to know what other people's opinions are because, I wish that more people would be able to, have that quiet moment, sit down and actually ponder, what am I doing?
[00:39:50] Randall: How am I moving through the world? How is that benefiting me and the people around me? I think it's an interesting point that you bring up that if we weren't so self aware, like, where would we be?
[00:40:02] John: Yeah, I mean, the people who probably turned into the most powerful attorneys in my class were the people who were the least self aware and just like, were tunnel vision and just went for it.
[00:40:12] John: They're able to just shut everything out. I care what people think about me. I make up what they think about me. It's all those things. I've always been very honest about how I feel about things to the detriment of myself. And you know, whether it was at the bank or at my job at the film commission that was something that was always pointed out to me on reviews.
[00:40:29] John: It's just we always know how you feel about something. Whether, you know, forget or for Ill, like, I don't know why that's such a bad thing.
[00:40:36] Randall: Side note do you ever hear of Robert Green's book, the 48 Laws of Power?
[00:40:41] John: I've heard of it. I've not read it.
[00:40:42] Randall: It's a huge book.
[00:40:43] Randall: I'm familiar with some of the laws, but I haven't read the entire book. But one of the laws is. Basically don't be honest. Because people are uncomfortable with honesty. So if you want to have a position of power and use that power for influence, the basic law is you can't be honest with people because not that it's a bad thing, but people are uncomfortable with your honesty.
[00:41:05] Randall: So that puts you in a negative situation and I'm also pretty honest too, but I'm trying to learn how not to be honest because I would be in different places in my career if I wasn't as honest, but like people can't handle it. And I can think of stories like instances in my career and not to get into it, but where I've approached things with honesty, like we're here and yes, we're below zero and we need to get to above zero and we can do that.
[00:41:33] Randall: But in order to do that, to me, we have to acknowledge where we're at. And if we can't be honest with where we're at, I don't know how you expect to get results above zero. So let's be honest, we're here. Yeah, we could be doing better. We need to do better. We're getting paid to do better. So in order to go on the road trip, we have to know where we're leaving from and where we're going to.
[00:41:53] Randall: And if I don't know how it's supposed to work otherwise, if we can't honestly acknowledge where we're at.
[00:41:59] John: And, that's a great point. Listen, I keep stuff to myself too. I'm not always keeping it real all a hundred percent all the time. I know how to function in the world, but I'm lucky that right now, I have somebody that I work for, who is, you know, a friend and a mentor as well and who I am able to be honest with about things.
[00:42:18] John: And we both know that the honesty isn't a hurdle to that. It's a conduit to us doing our best work. I'm forever grateful for that and to her.
[00:42:27] Randall: Awesome. Couple questions as we wrap this up. Cause you're probably getting tired of me.
[00:42:31] John: Not at all.
[00:42:32] Randall: What's the most influential book you've ever read?
[00:42:34] John: So it sounds like a joke, but I'm just going to say it, the Da Vinci code for whatever reason, like, first of all, it was a fun book to read, but the extent to which it made me question what the hierarchy is and history is written by winners and all that.
[00:42:47] John: It really started me down a path of being more critical of the things I had been taught, the things I have known for a long time or whatever. So it really was a catalyst to that. I bought a bunch of lost gospel books and things like that things about the Catholic church and its history.
[00:43:02] John: I really wanted to see like, what is the real history here? what are people talking about? You know, for as much as that book is pure fiction, but the one book that I will always come back to. And that a lot of people will groan because they didn't really care for it was it's a book called The Life of Pi by Yann Martel.
[00:43:19] John: It's a fiction book, but it's kind of a meditation on the relationship between storytelling and faith. I'm not a very religious person, but storytelling is almost a religious experience for me. It's kind of one of the things that I more than anything. I think, you know, going back to fairy tales, you hide a little bit of truth in this, web of fantasy, and I think that's very powerful, but it was always just a very beautiful book for me, and it came to me at a time when I was very, adrift myself, and that book is about, literally being adrift in the middle of the sea. They made a movie about it and everything, but people in my life that I've asked to read it,they've not felt the same way about the book that I do, so it's kind of a groaner for people.
[00:43:59] Randall: Yeah, I have a favorite movie of mine, and every time I recommend it to somebody, they're like, that's your favorite movie? Which one? A Good Year. A Good Year.
[00:44:07] John: I like that one.
[00:44:07] John: I like the figure.
[00:44:08] Randall: Russell Crowe?
[00:44:09] John: Yeah. Yeah. That's the one where he's like in Tuscany and stuff, right?
[00:44:13] John: It's just a nice quiet, that's a Ridley Scott movie, right?
[00:44:15] Randall: Yeah.He's in the south of France. He inherits a vineyard from his deceased uncle.
[00:44:20] Randall: I believe, that if you don't like that movie, you're a psychopath because of the theme of the book, or it was a book, actuallybooks better.
[00:44:28] Randall: I think they could have done a better job with the movie after I read the book but still great movie and like the story and the theme throughout the movie. Again, I think if you don't like it, you're a psychopath.
[00:44:39] John: I don't know somebody who could not like it if they went in there wanting Russell Crowe to be glad you're, sorry.
[00:44:43] Randall: Right. It's
[00:44:44] John: The man has range.
[00:44:46] Randall: Yes. And it's not like an Avengers movie or anything like, come on.
[00:44:49] Randall: But what does success look like to you?
[00:44:52] John: I think, for me, because of the ups and downs or whatever, I think success for me is waking up every morning, maybe not excited to go do what I'm doing because, you know, sometimes a job is a job.
[00:45:04] John: But feeling where I'm at right now I am working with good people. I'm in a place with great culture and I'm doing things that are interesting to me. I am, building a family that I love. I'm surrounded by people that I love. And you know, right now I feel like a success.
[00:45:22] Randall: I think you're a success.
[00:45:24] John: I think you're also a success, Randall.
[00:45:25] Randall: I appreciate that.
[00:45:26] Randall: John, where can people go find your work? Or Destination Cleveland.
[00:45:31] John: You can, go to thisiscleveland. comYou can find us on social usually under the moniker, this is Klee.
[00:45:37] John: Nice. Well, John Luteran, thanks for sharing your story, your journey, your trials and tribulations with us today.
[00:45:45] Randall: I appreciate you opening it up and I learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners will too. So thank you.
[00:45:50] AI: Thanks so much for having me. And that's it for today's conversation here on the Randall Osché podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.
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